Are Revolvers still practical for concealed carry?
Revolvers are cool guns, they are fun to shoot and they can be used to defend your life. And if my only option was a revolver I would carry it. Any gun is better then no gun. But……..
So this is the real world, we’re not in some video game or movie where you start off with a wheel gun and are forced to use it. When you decide to carry a CCW you 99% of the time go to a store and pick out a gun. This means you have options and you are the one responsible for your decision. The only exception to this is if you got a hand me down revolver from a family member and cannot afford to buy something new. But this is not as common as you would think.
Revolvers are as practical as the 1920 Ford Model T car. The Model T has a top speed of 45 miles per hour and miles per gallon was about 16-20. The Model T is still a car that can get you from your house to Taco Bell and back home before monday night football even now in 2023, but don’t you think a Honda Civic is a more practical option? Especially in Chicago winters?
Speaking of old Ford Model T cars, let's dive into the history of Revolvers a little bit.
The FIrst revolver.
It was the Colt Paterson Revolver, made by Samual colt in 1836. SIngle action only. This was a ball and cap 5 shot revolver and a complete pain in the dick to reload. This shot .28 caliber and .36 caliber, the available power is comparable to a modern .380 pistol cartridge.
First non black powder Revolver
In 1854, Eugene Lefaucheux introduced the Lefaucheux Model 1854, the first revolver to use self-contained metallic cartridges rather than loose powder, pistol ball, and percussion caps. It is a single-action, pinfire revolver holding six rounds
FIrst Centerfire Revolver
The Smith & Wesson Model 3 is a single-action, cartridge-firing, top-break revolver produced by Smith & Wesson (S&W) from around 1870 to 1915
First Double Action Revolver
In 1877 Colt produced the M1877, a 6-shot revolver chambered in .32 Long Colt (lc) .38 LC & .41 LC. These were the first Double action Revolvers made and can also be fired in single action. This is the blueprint for most modern day Revolvers. As I write this article we’re talking about 146 year old tech.
There is some debate that Webley actually made the first double action revolver before Colt, however I cannot find exact info on that.
The Salvator-Dormus pistol is the earliest-patented semi-automatic pistol. It was patented on 11 July 1891, by Archduke Karl Salvator of Austria and Count Georg von Dormus. This was an 8mm 5 round magazine. This was also a hammer fired pistol.
Strikers fired pistols.
The history of striker fired pistols is something that I can write an entire article about, honestly I can do that about all these pistols. But the earliest form of a striker fire pistols was the Hugo Borchardt C-93 (1883), this was also worked on by Georg Luger who in my opinion is not mentioned enough in firearm history.
Modern Day polymer striker fired pistols (most popular CCW pistol carried today)
Everyone thinks Glock was the first to make a polymer framed striker fire but that is not correct (eat a dick Gaston) H&K was the first to make this type of pistol. The VP70 was introduced in 1970.
Ok that's enough with the history lesson.
Why do I think revolvers are outdated
For the sake of this argument, I’m only going to be talking about J, K & L frame Revolvers.
If you are carrying an N or X frame revolver for EDC, you might have small penis issues.
I’m going to be comparing the S&W M&P 340 PD J-frame in 357 magnum and an S&W M&P Shield Plus in 9mm
The reason I chose these 2 pistols is because they are about the same size.
This link will give you a visual between the two pistols.
https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/smith-wesson-model-340-pd-vs-smith-wesson-m-p-9-shield-plus
Here are the dimension specs between the two. (measurements for the shield are with a 10 round mag)
Let's break down each stat above.
Length is about the same, no need to comment on this.
Height, without an optic the shield is a little taller,
however having the option to add an optic is nice. But with an optic it would be close to 1 inch taller.
Width, the 340 is slightly wider, 0.2” does not seem like a lot but depending on the body type of the person i can make a difference. But in most cases this is not a huge deal.
Up until this point the specs have not been major. These next specs will all somewhat work for and against each other.
Weight, the 340 is almost half the weight of the shield, for carrying the pistol this is ideal, however, the lighter gun is going to have more muzzle rise and more felt recoil, causing follow up shots to be slower.
Caliber & barrel length, I’m doing these together because they both affect each other greatly.
Let's compare some ballistics. We're going to be using Hornady Critical defense ammo for this, as it is considered one of the best self defense rounds available for any handgun.
9MM Luger +P 135 gr FlexLock® Critical Duty
Hornady tested with 4” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1110fps & 369 ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1039fps & 324 ft/lb
38 Special +P 110 gr FTX® Critical Defense
Hornady tested with 4” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1090fps & 290ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 997fps & 243ft/lb
357 Mag 135 gr FlexLock® Critical Duty
Hornady tested with 8” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1275fps & 487ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1510fps & 397ft/lb
So first off, I just want to point out that Hornady does not even offer Critcal duty in .38 special. That is because .38 is outdated, look at the numbers, the heavier 9mm is better ballistics then the 38. .38 is certified bitch.
Now, look at the barrel length the 9mm is tested with a 4” barrel while our shield is 3.1” this is a 22.5% loss from the hornady test
If we reduce our above muzzle numbers by 22.5% our new numbers are 860.25 FPS & 285 ft/lb
The .357 was tested with an 8” and our example gun is only an 1.88”!! That is a 76.5% loss!
New numbers reduced by 76.5% is 299.62FPS and 93.29ft/lb
Based on this math, .357 is certified bitch.
Also, .357 is going to produce more muzzle rise then 9mm
ALLLLLLSO a 1.88 inch barrel is going to produce a ton of muzzle rise over the 3.1inch barrel.
Things are not looking good for our little J-frame right now, but it's going to get worse.
Capacity, The shield wins by a landslide in this category.
340 is a 5 shot, the shield is a 10+1 with the flush fit mag. More than double the ammo capacity without the need to reload.
The shield also has 13 & 15 round mags available for it. So let's say you need to fire 25 rounds. That is 1 reload with the shield and you need to reload 4 times with the 340.
I’d argue that a good shooter could give Jerry Miculek a run for his money with those odds.
Speaking of extra ammo, you can carry a 15 round mag for every 5 round moon clip. And the mags are going to be thinner and more concealable then the moon clips.
Price, This last category also is not in favor of the 340. More than double the price of the shield. Tisk tisk.
Trigger
One more thing I want to talk about. The revolver is double action only. Meaning it's going to be a long hard trigger pull. While the shield is going to have a striker fire trigger that is going to be about half the pull weight, half the take up and light years better reset. The worse trigger is going to make follow up shots more difficult.
Bottom line, in the 340 revolver VS Shield, there is a clear winner.
J-Frame Revolver is certified bitch.
Ok ok ok, let jump it up to a more practical revolver, give the wheel gun a chance. Buuuuuuut fair is fair, if we change the wheel gun, we’re going to change the semi auto. 10mm has entered the chat.
You know what? Fuck it, two semi autos up against two revolvers.
Keeping with the S&W theme we’re going to be using the S&W M&P 2.0 9mm & 10mm for the semi autos.
And the Revolvers are going to be S&W model 686 & model 69
Now the S&W kind of sucks with naming there pistols, so I will be referring to the M&P 2.0 9mm as the MP9 and the M&P 2.0 10mm as the MP10
Ok lets start
Width
The semis are the slimist, with the revolvers being at least .25 inch or more wider.
length
The revolvers are over 2 inches longer than the semis
Height
Revolvers are taller,and since both gun types can take optics we are not going to worry too much about that, however most revolvers need a picatinny rail first then an optic mount, so that's going to sit much taller than the semis.
Weight
The semis are both right under 30oz while both revolvers are just below or right at 40oz
Caliber and Barrel length
4 guns 4 calibers. All of these guns are about the same barrel length.
Let's look at some ballistics, we're going to use the same 9mm and .357 from Hornady but add 10mm and 44mag.
9MM Luger +P 135 gr FlexLock® Critical Duty
Hornady tested with 4” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1110fps & 369 ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1039fps & 324 ft/lb
10mm Auto 175 gr FlexLock® Critical Duty
Hornady tested with 5” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1160fps & 523ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1061fps & 437ft/lb
357 Mag 135 gr FlexLock® Critical Duty
Hornady tested with 8” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1275fps & 487ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1510fps & 397ft/lb
44 Mag 200 gr XTP
Hornady tested with 7.5” barrel
Muzzle velocity and energy 1500fps & 999ft/lb
50y velocity and energy 1333fps & 789ft/lb
Now we adjust for barrel length at the muzzle.
The 9mm actually gains more velocity and energy, but we’ll just leave it the way it is.
1110fps & 369 ft/lb
10mm reduced by 20%
928 fps 418ft/lb
357 reduced by 48.38%
658.15 fps 251 ft/lb
44 reduced by 43.33
850.05 FPS 566 ft/lb
These numbers are pretty interesting, the 9mm beats out the .357 mag by a noticeable amount.
The 10mm vs 44 mag are interesting, the 10mm is traveling faster because 44 is a big heavy round that loses its energy pretty quickly. However due to the weight of the bullet and the power behind it, the energy is still higher than the 10mm.
Capacity
Once again, semi autos are going to beat out the wheel guns with ease in this. With one in the chamber of the semis, you would have to reload twice with the revolvers to get as much round down range. And if you are using the extended mag options for the semis….well you get my point.
Price
Once again, the revolvers are going to be $400 more than the semis. I also see the M&P Semis go on sale all the time for closer to $500, I rarely see revolvers go on sale.
Triggers.
Same as before, these striker fired guns are going to have short triggers with minimal take up, and a short reset.
The revolvers can be shot in single action to get a nice short trigger pull, but then you're manually pulling the hammer back taking up more time. Or you can use the hard trigger pull of the double action.
So the 9 vs 357.
9 has lower recoil,
9 is smaller gun easier to conceal
9 has better stopping power
9 has more ammo capacity
9 has a faster ability to fire.
9 cost less, you can use the extra money for training and ammo
L Frame .357 Revolver is Certified Bitch
10mm vs 44 mag.
10 has lower recoil,
10 is smaller gun easier to conceal
44mag has the better stopping power
10 has more ammo capacity
10 has a faster ability to fire.
10 cost less, you can use the extra money for training and ammo
L Frame .44 mag Revolver is Certified Bitch
oh by the way, if you are not happy that I used Hornady for my base test, I've linked 2 more brands at the bottom. spoiler alert, revolvers are still not winning.
Ok this is my favorite part. The part where you say “but Alex, revolvers are more reliable, they cannot jam or malfunction’
Good, I thought you’d never ask.
Revolvers can absolutely malfunction, yes I would agree that they malfunction less than a semi auto.
However I would also argue that the semi is going to get shot 3 or 5 times more than that revolver due to how much easier it is to load mags and shoot.
So how can revolvers malfunction?
Cylinder timing, when the cylinder timing is not correct the cylinder will not line up with the firing pin or the barrel and nothing will happen. The cylinder needs to line up perfectly every single time with the barrel and firing pin. The fix is taking it apart and resetting the timing.
How can timing get fucked up?
Excessive amount of carbon because you never clean your gun or you were shooing cheap ammo and when you really think about it the revolver cylinder is a tiny little barrel with a tiny little gap that is right behind the main barrel, and even though that gap between both "barrel" its big enough for blast pressure to leak out and blow shit all over the cylinder. revolvers are like high end wrist watches, there's a shit ton of springs and linkage and levers and stuff. There are so many things that can get gummed up with carbon or other outside debris like the cylinder stop, the cylinder ratchet, fuck even the firing pin. All this shit is exposed, there is not much covering this shit.
or you drop your gun in the dirt and it got all in the internals or you are shooting in a windy sandy environment.
or if the gun is smacked hard enough, like if it's in a shitty leather holster on your hip and you fall directly on it.
But Alex, what are the chances of me falling on it? you know what.....you're right, people have never been taken down to the ground in a struggle during an altercation.......oh wait?
This way might take a while, but, do you know what the cylinder latch is? This is the part that is attached to the cylinder release on the revolver. This is the latch that keeps the cylinder from swinging open. Why am I mentioning this? Well, if you are trying to push the cylinder open without hitting that latch release, this puts unnecessary pressure on the latch, and if you have a shit brand revolver this can break on you. Even if it does not break, it can bend or dent can cause cylinder issues with timing or even getting the cylinder to close correctly.
"Well Alex, I don’t open and shut my cylinder that much so im not worried about that happening."
WHAT???? You are not practiceing reloading your slower then fuck pistol?!?!?
The ejector rod can bend causing your cylinder to not close correctly making the gun useless. The fix is replacing the rod
The springs can seize up and lock up the hammer causing the gun to not fire, the fix is taking the gun apart. This is common with hammerless guns
So it sounds like when they do fail they fail so hard that they cannot be fixed quickly in the heat of the moment.
Don’t believe me? Read this article with people having issues.
What about ice? Garand Thumb did that test, revolver failed, half the semis were ok.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsXIdL6gJYA&t=1s
Can we talk about reloading? Lets talk about reloading.
Let me tell you the steps to reload a revolver and we’ll assume you have a speed loader. And were going to be using the universal revolver reload that most instructors and competition shooters use.
You fire 6 shots and click nothing happens
You hit the cylinder release
With your weak hand you break your grip and grab the cylinder and rotate the cylinder out.
With your weak hand you tilt the gun up as you his the shell ejection rod with your stong hand.
Then you have to reach back an grab your speed loader and bing it back up with your strong hand, while your doing this your weak hand needs to point the gun downward.
You need to line up the speed loader into the cylinder
You need to unlock the bullet from the speed loader into the cylinder.
You need to shut the cylinder of the revolver
You need to move your hands back to the grip you had before the reload.
Man that a lot of shit you have to do. And you have to do it every 6 shots….and what if you don’t have a speed loader??? How fucking long is it going to take loading them 1 by 1??
Heys that step by step thing was cool, lets do a semi auto next
You fire 10 rounds and then the slide locks back
A. You take your weak hand off the gun and reach for the mag, at the same time you push the mag release for the mag to drop out
B. you take your weak hand off and rip the mag out as you are pushing the mag release button with your strong hand.
You grab the new magazine and insert it back into the gun
You hit the magazine slide release to send the slide forward with your strong hand. Your weak hand is getting back on the grip
thats it…..done. 3 steps vs 8, Common, this is a no brainer
Man, I’ve been really trash talking revolvers a lot in this huh? Once again, I like revolvers. I think they are fun to shoot. I want to buy one for my collection. However there are few situations I can think of where a revolver is better than a semi auto for defense.
Key word, for defense. Because this article is all about having a gun on you for defense.
When you are in a gunfight, you don’t want a fair fight, you want the deck stacked in your favor. You want to give yourself the best chance to come out as the winner of the gunfight. Shit, if I knew I was going into a gun fight, I’d want an AR-15 chambered in .300 blackout. But carrying around an AR all the time is not practical or legal in some cases.
Also carrying around an AR15 then becomes open carry and I can write an entire article on pros and cons of open carry vs concealed carry. Also keep in mind, some of those big boy revolvers are hard to conceal.
Here are some more random facts that also prove that revolvers are old news.
Revolvers have not been used in the US military since 1956 and that was in limited cases too, the colt 1911 was mostly used since World War 1 until it was completely replaced by the beretta m9 in 1985.
The FBI stopped using revolvers in 1986 and fully adopted the Smith & Wesson 1076 10mm by 1990, however since then the standard issue for the FBI has been the Glock 17 or 19 in 9mm.
The CIA uses the Sig P226 or the glock 19. (p226, the CIA has good taste)
Homeland security uses Glock 19 & 26
US customs uses the Sig P320 in 9mm
US marshals use a 40 cal glock
Police are a mixed bag. Way too hard to get data on that, and yes, there are probably some cops that still use wheel guns. But the police in the US are heavily using guns like glocks, S&W M&P 2.0, sigs, walthers and 1911s.
LAPD uses the FN 509 in 9mm
NYPD uses mostly Glocks
Chicago PD uses the sig P320 in 9mm
So the bottom line
Back in the day, revovlers were a good choice for a carry gat. But in mordern times, with modern ammunition. you are doing a disservice to your safety by carring a revolver.oh oh oh oh, and let's talk about bears. one of the few arguments that you would think big bore revolvers have in the bag, nope.....10mm semi auto's still wins.
Can a well placed shot from a 44 magnum or 500 magnum put down a bear in 1 shot? possible, but experienced hunters say it would take a few rounds. Once again you get 5 shots before you need to reload. I'd rather have 18 shots of 10mm
also, they say most of the time, the gunshot sound alone will scare off a bear, so why not have a glock with 15+1 rounds, you fire your warning shot and then you still have 15 round to defend your self vs firing your 1 big bore revolver round and now having 4 shots left.
You know how fast a bear can move? up to 40 MPH, and you have to aim for his head basically to actually try and put him down. you think you can hit a 30-40 MPH moving target 5 or 6 times in a row with your heavier trigger, more recoil revolver?
how well would you do with a better trigger, lighter recoil 10mm with 16-20 chances to hit that target? Even if you miss 50% of your shot, that's still 8-10 shots on target. more than the revolver can do if you land 100% of the shots.
oh and reloading a revolver while a bear is charging you? yea, good luck.
There are a bunch of reports of people using 10mm to survive bear attacks. There are even a few where the bear was put down.
One article shows that guy killed an 850 lb grizzly with 3 shots of 10mm.
3 shots from a glock 20 means he had at least 12 more shots left to defend himself. I like having 12 more shots vs 2 or 3.
Do you think the ammo numbers with Hornady ammo was fair? Do you want more data from another ammo manufacturer? oooooooooooooooooooook Speer ammo it is! great self defense ammo and commonly used by cops.
Gold Dot Handgun Personal Protection 9mm Luger +P 124g
1220 FPS
409.9 Ft/lbs
tested in 2" barrel
Gold Dot Short Barrel Personal Protection 38 Special +P 135g
860 FPS
221.7 Ft/lbs
this is designed to work best with 1.9" revolvers
Gold Dot Handgun Personal Protection 357 Magnum 158
1235 fps
535.23 ft/lbs
tested in 4" barrel
Gold Dot Handgun Personal Protection 10mm Auto 200 Grain
1100 fps
537.49 ft/lbs
tested in 5" barrel
look at that.......9mm speer beats .38 and 10mm beats .357. the metric system is looking pretty good right now.
lets give the wheel guns one more fighting chance we've done Hornady, we've done Speer it's only logical to do the next most used ammo for defense Federal
Personal Defense HST 9mm Luger +P 124
1200 fps
396.58 ft/lbs
tested in 4" barrel
Personal Defense Hydra•Shok 38 Special +P 129g
950 fps
258.57 ft/lbs
tested in 4 inch barrel
Personal Defense Hydra•Shok 357 Magnum 158g
1240 fps
539.58 ft/lbs
4 inch barrel
Personal Defense HST 10mm Auto 200g
1130 fps
567.20 ft/lbs
tested in 5 inch barrel
Looks like .357 & .38 are still certified bitch
now, if anyone still wants to argue with 357 (lil bitch magnum)
I present to you
Grizzly 10MM 220gr Hard Cast FP
220g
1200 fps
703.62 ft/lbs
tested in 5 in barrel
703 fucking ft/lbs of energy. This mother fucker with kill you and 3 people behind you!
If you’ve never been fucked, this bullet will fuck you 7 times over.
Before you give me shit about wikipedia, you can look at their scores that they gathered info from and cross reference that. I did all this research, if you want to prove me wrong, I’ll gladly read an article you write.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Paterson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M1877
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_3
All S&W guns facts were bases on S&W’s website
Same with Hornady
https://wethepeopleholsters.com/blogs/news/u-s-government-handguns-who-carries-what
https://web.archive.org/web/20170414020420/http://www.usmarshals.gov/usmsforkids/week_wed.htm
https://nypd.fandom.com/wiki/NYPD_Weapons
https://sofrep.com/gear/chicago-pd-chooses-sig-sauer-p320/
https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/general/how-fast-can-a-bear-run
https://www.outdoorlife.com/survival/10mm-glock-grizzly-bear-charge/
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